Music: Dirty Gertie by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com

Summary

Randall Hartman grew up in the Church of the Nazarene and gave his life in service to the organization. But when he began to speak out about the Churches hottest topic, LGBT inclusion, he was tried for heresy. He stands among the likes of Dr. Tom Oord, Dr. Dee Kelley, and many others who have defied the denomination in services of its own core value: The doctrine of Holiness. Although few within its membership can articulate what holiness means, many are hell-bent on ejecting those who would offer a loving and inclusive perspective. As the organization unravels in increasingly chaotic spasms of hyper-exclusionary rhetoric and practices, they continue to unmoor themselves from the traditions they supposedly hold dear and instead align themselves with violent anti-queer Christian Nationalists. A fate so common among Evangelical groups, it’s hardly surprising – but to many is still so heartbreaking. As tragic and frustrating as his experience has been over the last few years, Randy says he’s not going anywhere. Still wondering whether a bridge can be built over these troubled waters, he reflects on a different time, one that was marked by love and community - the church he grew up in and hoped to pass on to his children and grandchildren. We talk about being immersed in the church, a calling to preach and serve, and all the people and places that came into his life. We tease his upcoming book “A God Awful God” and muse on whether the Church of the Nazarene will successfully weather this identity crisis. I am grateful for Randy’s patience and vulnerability as we navigated some extreme technical issues to bring you this episode. Although we don’t explore theology throughout our conversation, we examine his experiences in the shadow of that once compelling doctrine of holiness. For both of us, it all comes down to a matter of heart. I hope you enjoy this conversation, thanks for being here.*If you want to explore more about John Wesley, the quadrilateral model, the doctrine of holiness, or Open and Relational Theology and Process thought -I would point you once again to Tom Oord, who is extremely well educated and particularly articulate regarding their substance and practice. Properly understood, Holiness is the both the expression and evidence of a life well lived in relation to God and neighbor – it’s something this world still needs very much.

Resources and Mentions:

The Great Escape

Acts 26:16

Randallhartman.com

Randallhartmanphotography.com

Theology Beer Camp

https://thomasjayoord.com/

https://c4ort.com/

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